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Stuart Barnes' talking points: Fallen Boks, passionate All Blacks and Europe's best

Italy's players celebrate after winning the rugby union Test match between Italy and South Africa at the Artmio Franchi Stadium in Florence on November 19,
Image: Italy celebrate their 20-18 victory over the Springboks in Florence

"Great art galleries, great architecture, great churches and some decent-looking domes, Michelangelo, restaurants, you'll love it."

That was my promise to the SuperSport broadcast team who are following the Springboks around this month. A week in Florence, hell, was I envious!

But South Africans, being the passionate rugby people they are, will not be leaving one of the world's great renaissance cities with many happy memories and Bach cantatas echoing in their ears. Instead, there was yet another day of Springbok humiliation.

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One week earlier the largely second string All Blacks had carved Italy open in one of those games where tries are scored from every angle. But on Saturday, Italy reversed their fortunes with an astonishing victory against South Africa. Great credit to Italy, Conor O' Shea and Mike Catt (how he must have enjoyed the win) but is it really so astonishing?

The Springboks have now lost five of their six games away from home this season and drawn the other with the Barbarians. They have twice been blown away by their former deadly rivals New Zealand. It is time for the word 'crisis'.

ROME, ITALY - NOVEMBER 19: Players of South Africa shows his dejection during the international match between Italy v South Africa at Stadio Olimpico on No
Image: The dejected Boks leave the field after their loss to the Azzurri

They have dropped into fifth place in the world rankings and have only the one game left against Wales - away - before the World Cup draw is made next May. The European teams have the Six Nations in which to rise and fall. The odds are on the South Africans being a tier-two pool draw for Japan with the potential of another 'England' scenario looming large. Allister Coetzee is in a dark place.

2 At the other end of the international game there was absolutely no surprise that New Zealand bounced back and beat Ireland in Dublin. What surprised even me was the ferocity of the All Black display. They walked the line of legality and occasionally stepped over it.

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"Who is the better European team, Ireland or England? England is ranked two but has not yet shown quite the level of performance we have witnessed from Ireland this autumn."
Stuart Barnes

There has been some outrage regarding their aggression but the greater concern is with the officiating that doesn't think the Sam Cane shoulder hit that took Robbie Henshaw out of the game deserved anything but a penalty.

While not condoling dangerous and violent play there was something thrilling about a team caring that much about losing. It's up to the referees and their assistants to control their passions.

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Paul O'Connell, Gordon D'Arcy and Sean Fitzpatrick analyse Ireland's loss

3 If high tackles and Sam Cane was the dark side of the All Black performance, Beauden Barrett was their white magic - all good, all positive, and dazzling in nearly everything he did. The first half hour was startling.

Eddie Jones wonders whether George Ford can become a better fly-half than Barrett. Superb as Ford was with ball in hand against Fiji, it's fair to say that, on Saturday's evidence, he has a way to go... and I loved Ford's performance at Twickenham.

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Highlights of Ireland's clash against the All Blacks in Dublin

4 Ireland - losing three key players as they did against France in the World Cup - couldn't quite pull off another epic victory. But then again that was France, this was New Zealand. Disrupted by the loss of key players, still Ireland gave the All Blacks a great game.

They lack the match-winning stardust even with those three on the field, but this was a powerful performance, even in defeat. Joe Schmidt's team has more strength in depth than ever. He has done a fine rebuilding job post-World Cup.

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5 Who is the better European team, Ireland or England? England are ranked two but have not yet shown quite the level of performance we have witnessed from Ireland this autumn. England do have that winning knack, however, and are on a steadily improving curve.

We may have to wait for the final match of the Six Nations for some sort of answer, although Ireland will have home advantage. Ireland, meanwhile, have to forget the aches and pains and end the Australian winning run this weekend.

Isn't that a fascinating game? If Ireland want to be going toe to toe with England for the status of world number two, this is the sort of game they have to grit out.

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6 Let's hope Argentina can give England a work-out. South Africa was comfortable, Fiji a walk in the park. The Pumas are looking ragged. It has been a long year of Super Rugby and the depth of their squad is looking dubious.

Individually they are equipped with talent, especially in the back row and midfield, but they are collectively mistake-ridden. If they play their rugby in the wrong parts of the field, England will make short work of them. Paradoxical as it seems, an inspired Argentina is exactly what Jones's men need before Australia arrive with revenge in mind.

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Highlights of England's Autumn International clash against Fiji at Twickenham

7 Scotland nicked the game against the Pumas with the last kick of the game. It's about time the last-minute break went their way. Vern Cotter's team have been playing some good rugby for quite a while but ending up on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

It was time for the performance to give way to the importance of the result. Psychologically Scotland will be a lot stronger for the last swing of Greig Laidlaw's boot.

8 Wales too won with the last kick of the game, this time a drop goal from Sam Davies, but there are few hymns and arias across the Severn Bridge at the moment.

Jones: Wales complacent again
Jones: Wales complacent again

England coach Eddie Jones blasts 'complacent' Wales

Eddie Jones weighed in, accusing Wales of complacency against a team containing seven or eight 'company' players.

"You and I could play company rugby," said the stirring Jones.

9 Tension will be unbearable in Cardiff this weekend. Wales cannot afford to lose against a South African team that are a faded shadow of their old legendary self, while the Springboks cannot afford to lose to a Welsh team that is struggling to find any kind of form.

I fear the pressure, the fear of not losing, as opposed to going out and playing positive winning rugby, could limit the quality of the rugby. You can chuck all my normal 'performance' talk out the window, winning is even more important for both teams Saturday than it was for Scotland last weekend.

CARDIFF, WALES - NOVEMBER 19:  Wales player Sam Davies kicks the winning drop goal during the International match between Wales and Japan at Principality S
Image: Wales need a last-minute drop goal from Sam Davies to secure a win over Japan

10 New Zealand are talking up the 'unpredictable' French. Go look at France's record in the last five or six years, study the DVDs of their inept performances. France have not been unpredictable for ages, they have been useless.

It would be an infinitely greater shock for France to beat a New Zealand team in Paris than it was when Ireland won in Chicago.

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